Can we even escape proprietary firmware?
From what I understand Libreboot aims to use the newest available proprietary firmware for any processor while Gnuboot treats the proprietary firmware like hardware. Libreleah from Libreboot writes that this is bad because this way available improvements can't be used. She argues that using outdated proprietary code is even worse than using updated versions of the same.
On her web page she also lists other devices using proprietary firmware like storage disks, wifi, sound cards and GPUs. I guess it is impossible to replace the firmware of all those potentially used devices.
I am aware that sellers like Technoethical, Minifree and Vikings do select hardware that can run well using fully free software. But this isn't the same as only using components that can be used without closed down firmware. I wonder why I didn't yet find any recommendations for example for freedom friendly storage disks. Is this just hopeless?
I am a translator!
> I wonder why I didn't yet find any recommendations for example for freedom friendly storage disks.
As far as I am aware, there isn't any storage disk with a controller running free software. I don't consider it hopeless though, the articles listed give hints on how to reverse engineer some very commonly available storage disks, but it looks like a lot of additional work. If you know anyone who may have the necessary skills and is looking for a challenge, you could suggest this.
>"Is this just hopeless?"
No, never hopeless. The coreboot folks and the fine folks working on gnuboot and libreboot and canoeboot are making great strides in freeing up new firmware all the time. Which is why we should support their work. When you see Leah getting yelled at for offering a version of libreboot that is not unarguably 100% libre we should defend Leah. Leah's goal is to get to 100% software and firmware freedom, and we can't get there if we don't have people that are doing the reverse engineering work on a continual basis.
There are other problems though besides storage disks. For example, I don't think there's a modern monitor or display that can be run with fully free firmware. Even Atheros wifi cards, although we can run them with free drivers, there's still baked in non-free firmware as far as I know.
Regardless of whether or not the FSF considers baked-in non-free firmware to be part of the device if it's not changeable, I think we should still be striving for devices that ARE 100% free firmware, free drivers, and free software. As Jason Self likes to point out, the PDP-10 that was used by Richard Stallman at MIT was 100% free - you could program the CPU microcode yourself for example. We should be wanting modern machines that are just as free.
Excellent post.
Even Atheros wifi cards, although we can run them with free drivers, there's still baked in non-free firmware as far as I know.
As far as I understand, the whole firmware for AR7010 and AR9271 USB wireless adapters is on https://github.com/qca/open-ath9k-htc-firmware under a free software license.
>"As far as I understand, the whole firmware for AR7010 and AR9271 USB wireless adapters is on https://github.com/qca/open-ath9k-htc-firmware under a free software license."
Oh that's great, thanks for clarifying!
i thank you for your support, but i would ask that you also provide praise to:
* coreboot developers
* GNU GRUB developers
* seabios developers
* u-boot developers
* flashprog developers
* pcsx-redux developers
* and more
the full list of upstream projects used by libreboot can be determined programatically, by checking "config/git/", "config/submodule/" directories in lbmk.git, to find what upstream sources are used
the same can also be done for canoeboot cbmk.
if this changes in the future, see: https://canoeboot.org/docs/maintain/ and https://libreboot.org/docs/maintain/
literally tens of thousands of people enable the work that i do.
i'm really good at gluing everything together and making something nice for the user, but remember what i do is largely integration work, akin to a coreboot distro.
since my project, libreboot (and canoeboot) also require a gnu+linux system to compile everything on, that means basically the free software movement as a whole deserves praise too.
which is to say, succinctly:
we stand on the shoulders of giants.
I really like your post Leah.
Is it fair to say that the singular goal of everyone involved is to get to a point where we can all be routinely using modern hardware that is 100% free from boot up to device and chipset initiation and all throughout our device and software interactions?
If so, then it seems as though all of these projects would deserve our full support. We can each choose the devices and firmware and software that best fits our needs and that provides us with maximum freedom, but with all of us supporting that goal of eventually achieving fully free modern systems.
Thank you all for your insights.
I thought RISC-V was a hopeful avenue, but considering all the other parts a system needs to have it doesn't seem to get us there either – even if someone can invest enough to create a commonly available actually truly free RISC-V processor.
Is it possible to run POWER9 without proprietary firmware?
Also Microwatt is a possibility.
Ironically, like Risc-V, Google is putting their support behind that as well.
I think Google just loves to support freely licensed software because it keeps them secure.
Pity they only want it for selfish purposes.
But anywho, Microwatt for those who don't know, is based on OpenPOWER3 and is meant to compete with Risc-V in multiple ways including and especially, watt usage and heat usage.
https://github.com/antonblanchard/microwatt
https://git.openpower.foundation/cores/microwatt/
This post was directed towards you, at first, but it diverges towards the end.
Google is pretty much the reason we have nice things in coreboot these days. Sure they do it for selfish reasons, but that's fine. They do their thing.
A lot of other non-chromebook boards are based on Google's source code. Everyone in freedomland has their own proprietary itch to scratch.
Without Google, coreboot would be in sh*t creek.
True, unfortunately in the sense of Google.
I don't know if everyone in freedomland has a proprietary itch to scratch, but some certainly do.
This being said, internet connection with proprietary software is very unwise.
Also not freedom friendly either.
PS, I don't know why my post got two thumbs down and yours got one given you actually thanked Google and I didn't.
lol.
Thank you for mentioning microwatt. I will check it out. (I also don't get in what way my original post might have violated the community guidelines.)