Recently I degoogled my smartphone.
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Its the pixel 7, replaced it with grapheneos.
I actually wonder too, if its possible to replace the pixel devices with replicant in the future. rather than those crappy samsung phones that replicant currently works on. If so, replicant would be based on a modern phone for a change and one that is already developer friendly to begin with.
I am glad I did this recently, because google is still untrustworthy, even their phones which are not as bad as samsung, but that's such a low bar to clear... so... yeah.
> Its the pixel 7, replaced it with grapheneos.
It cannot be degoogled due to it's a Google device, initialized by a closed-source Google bootloader.
Besides, the OS is based on Google AOSP.
And finally, it has vast amounts of closed-source Google firmwares for camera, bluetooth and so on.
> I actually wonder too, if its possible to replace the pixel devices with replicant in the future. rather than those crappy samsung phones that replicant currently works on
No. What is worse, from now, Google developers are not going to reveal device trees for Pixels anymore.
> If so, replicant would be based on a modern phone for a change and one that is already developer friendly to begin with.
Replicant team is working with the Pinephone Pro.
It has a open-source bootloader, towboot
There is also a project in Github that frees parcially the baseband OS.
Even at its current situation, as far as freedom is concern, Pinephone Pro with a GNU/Linux distro is, by far, better than any Android system.
> I am glad I did this recently, because google is still untrustworthy, even their phones which are not as bad as samsung, but that's such a low bar to clear... so... yeah.
Buying a Pixel is, in my view, a way to fund Google, giving them money. That's completely unethical for me.
>It cannot be degoogled due to it's a Google device, initialized by a closed-source Google bootloader.
Besides, the OS is based on Google AOSP.
And finally, it has vast amounts of closed-source Google firmwares for camera, bluetooth and so on.
It has been mostly degoogled then I guess. What would your definition be for degoogled device out of curiosity?
>Replicant team is working with the Pinephone Pro.
It has a open-source bootloader, towboot
There is also a project in Github that frees parcially the baseband OS.
Even at its current situation, as far as freedom is concern, Pinephone Pro with a GNU/Linux distro is, by far, better than any Android system.
As for pinephone pro, are they planning to sell it for a cheap price? If so... I don't think its a good idea to buy.
What the world needs is a durable, freedom friendly phone that works well for the purposes people use a smartphone for traditionally minus the insecurities as much as possible
I have heard bad things about the build quality of pine devices.
>Buying a Pixel is, in my view, a way to fund Google, giving them money. That's completely unethical for me.
Yeah, except I didn't buy it from Google directly.
Also, the alternative for some out there is to buy Samsung and other more locked down devices. I have heard that you cannot get those being unlocked and the usual carrier options without more problems
>No. What is worse, from now, Google developers are not going to reveal device trees for Pixels anymore.
I have heard of that, time will tell what that means. I am not using one of those devices. That's for the 9 or 10 I think you speak of.
Just as a final note, its still better to have a lineageos based android then regular android.
I would like to someday have a GNU/Linux distro option for phones that works as well as any flavor of android with the current freedom my thinkpad X230 and T430 have. (coreboot and intel me disabled + ath9k and use only free software.)
This just isn't possible now for me or most people.
Long story short, more freedom is better than less freedom.
Android = the least freedom
GrapheneOS = more freedom
Although there might be stuff that is better in the long term in the future.
> It has been mostly degoogled then I guess. What would your definition be for degoogled device out of curiosity? <
Any non-Android device.
As for Android mobiles, in my opinion, Pixels are the worst.
> As for pinephone pro, are they planning to sell it for a cheap price? If so... I don't think its a good idea to buy. <
I don't know. Maybe, in the future, will be available in Tehnoetic and others.
> What the world needs is a durable, freedom friendly phone that works well for the purposes people use a smartphone for traditionally minus the insecurities as much as possible <
Sure.
> Yeah, except I didn't buy it from Google directly. <
If you bought it from a reseller it is the same; as if I bought it in a store. Google makes money.
In addition, you revalue their terminals.
> Also, the alternative for some out there is to buy Samsung and other more locked down devices. I have heard that you cannot get those being unlocked and the usual carrier options without more problems <
Fairphone devices are, in my opinion, the lesser evil.
> Just as a final note, its still better to have a lineageos based android then regular android.
I would like to someday have a GNU/Linux distro option for phones that works as well as any flavor of android with the current freedom my thinkpad X230 and T430 have. (coreboot and intel me disabled + ath9k and use only free software.)
This just isn't possible now for me or most people.
Long story short, more freedom is better than less freedom. <
Agreed.
> Android = the least freedom
GrapheneOS = more freedom <
Rooted LineageOS even more freedom.
The device is yours. For instance, you can edit hosts file and add Nickspaargaren AntiGoogle lists and others like Steven Black.
Anyway, GOS developers and echo chambers like Privacyguides, plus Google and others tell you that you have to give up freedom to have more security.
Another recurring slogan is, without security there is no privacy.
> Although there might be stuff that is better in the long term in the future. <
I hope so too.
I have also recently had the need to get a new phone.
I had been using Galaxy S4 Mini for many years, and between Lineage and DivestOS, it was a great experience overall. But I had to replace it and found that the landscape had indeed, changed. Much more difficult to find devices that allow easy bootloader unlock, not all being supported by mainstream security/privacy conscious alternatives (Lineage, Graphene, Calyx, etc etc). And price was a heavy factor for me...
After a lot of reading and searching, I also went with a Pixel, and I have to say, I was glad I did. Super easy to install Graphene with the webinstaller, and I notice the same option is available to install Calyx and Stock (if needed for warranty).
I think with smartphones we are always making some tradeoff. There are no perfect options yet, and perhaps never. As an example, I would like to go with a FairPhone, but the price is very high. Kinda calls the attention to the fact that when these devices are made "fair" we notice how unfair the "cheap" stuff is, all things considered. Still, I believe over time things might get better.
As of now, like I said, i don't find any perfect option out there. And these older Pixels are a decent mid-way solution. Just as some other brands, if you go with even slightly older options, might be a good mid-way solution.
On a final note, I hope the Replicant project gets a new life with their working with Pine and all.... for a while the project seemed kinda dead, but then again.... It's extremely difficult to pull something like Graphene and Calyx and Lineage, and it must be 100 times more difficult to pull something like Replicant. Fingers crossed that they keep it going and at some point becomes possible to buy new/refurbished devices with Replicant pre-installed.
All in all, I am happy enough with my choice, and I am happy that yours went well as well :)
As of now, like I said, i don't find any perfect option out there.
I still do not own any tracking device. I perfectly understand I am privileged: most people cannot work without a cell phone and, for those in their 20s or 30s, they usually got addicted to it since their childhood (often because their parents gave that tracking device to them).
I am a translator!
I can work without a cell phone and I rarely look at it, but without it, during days on which I work, I would have no way to communicate for something else than work (no fixed phone, no internet), and I need to receive SMS as second factor for authentication to the websites of my banks. I guess I could replace the phone with a cellular modem, but it is still a tracking device.
I am glad I was born when DOS was around. That way I know how strange computers were.
Also, it makes me aware GNU/Linux is not the hardest OS out there.
Honestly, DOS makes even BSD look easy.
:D
Funny enough, I did remember some users here (you being one of them) mentioning they were able to not have a cellphone/smartphone.
I appreciate that you see that that is a somehow privileged scenario, not doable for most people today. Though, I will say what you said is also true, a lot of the "need" comes from "wants", related or not to the fact that youngsters have those devices earlier these days.
Funny thing, I DID try a few years ago to use a home-only-phone (basically I was leaving my smartphone at home, since it was an experiment and I wasn't interested in going through the hassle of installing landline just for that). It was going fine... shortly after my job situation changed and suddenly I was walking around with an high-end google/company controlled device all day long. LOL
I kinda figured, well, I can at least control the software on my own device. Better than nothing. These days, it really is a 20/80 situation. I have 20% of actual need to have the device with me for specific situations, but I acknowledge 80% is want. And this coming from a guy who doesn't use Social Media so to speak ahah.
All that being said (sorry for the long post), I DO LOVE when I get to go running or working out, or even choose to go for a walk on the beach or something, and I leave everything behind (including the devices). The feeling of freedom is strong in those moments :) Though, i may say I am also privileged in that I don't depend on my devices all the time as some other people do. I think that makes sense.
@jorahdawson
>As for Android mobiles, in my opinion, Pixels are the worst.
I disagree completely. I have more freedom now then the samsung devices i have had in the past.
Note 7 had all sorts of garbage, locked bootloader, lots of apps I will never ever use/bloatware, etc...
I can root my device btw if I so desire in grapheneos.
I do think without security privacy has no chance of existence though.
However that doesn't mean that you have privacy if you have security as well.
There is a kind of paradox in which one can be true without the other or it can be false without the other.
I do admit though, giving google money isn't great.
However, I dislike Samsung and other mobile brands more.
This is probably one of the few devices Google makes that doesn't suck major ass.
Mostly because they have made it easy to jailbreak them. Other than that, you would be correct its not good to fund them.
>>> I disagree completely. I have more freedom now then the samsung devices i have had in the past.
Note 7 had all sorts of garbage, locked bootloader, lots of apps I will never ever use/bloatware, etc... <<<
When I referred to the worst, I was talking about the degoogling process. A Pixel phone has the most amount of proprietary Google software.
>>> I can root my device btw if I so desire in grapheneos. <<<
Certainly, but you're not probably going to do it.
On the other hand, GOS works, time and time again, to make it harder by improving security to remove said freedom.
https://github.com/topjohnwu/Magisk/pull/8305
>>> I do think without security privacy has no chance of existence though.
However that doesn't mean that you have privacy if you have security as well.
There is a kind of paradox in which one can be true without the other or it can be false without the other. <<<
It's true. And any added security is welcome.
But not at the expense of freedom.
>>> I do admit though, giving google money isn't great.
However, I dislike Samsung and other mobile brands more.
This is probably one of the few devices Google makes that doesn't suck major ass.
Mostly because they have made it easy to jailbreak them. Other than that, you would be correct its not good to fund them. <<<
And not only that. What bothers me most about GOS developers is that they are constantly attacking, always from a security point of view, alternatives to their projects. Firefox, Lineageos, F-Droid, CalyxOS, MicroG, almost all non-Pixel phones and so on.
They try to destroy the competition, and since they have huge media promotion, in the end most people looking for privacy information end up buying the Pixels and installing GOS.
For instance, recently, with the increasing problem of the Play Integrity API, they want their users to email app developers that include Strong verification to add GOS besides stock ROM, even leaving bad reviews in the Google Play Store, forcing them to stay in such system:
https://grapheneos.org/articles/attestation-compatibility-guide
By the way, do you know what the difference is between a rooted LineageOS and GOS/Stock?
In the first one, I'm an admin and in the second one, a user. This is what Android means, because of security.
An admin, like in my Parabola GNU/Linux-Libre and LibreCMC systems.
@jorah-dawson I choose GrapheneOS purely because it was easier to degoogle.
Even if it doesn't completely do it of course.
I don't know their policies versus their competition either too well.
I have heard rumors of what you said, but nothing more.
As for using grapheneos vs lineageos, I couldn't make heads or tails of what I needed to do to install it, so that's why I did what I did.
The less power google has over my device the better anyhow.
I am sorry for being a bit rude but it saddens me that this project, which has an exaggerated promotion in the media and huge monetary donations, is being imposed on the other alternatives, among other reasons based on criticism and attacks on them.
A comparative example that is often referred to by the GOS-related media is this website:
https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm
It lists all the security and privacy features of GOS to make it seem that the alternatives are insecure and anti-private.
However, if we look at who is the user who makes the most suggestions:
https://github.com/eylenburg/eylenburg.github.io/issues?q=is%3Aissue%20author%3Athestinger
Daniel Micay, GOS founder.
Anyway, sorry for being so insistent.
Have a nice week.
Perhaps true and you would be right to think Pixel devices could have freedom problems. I guess the thing is, are they more private then android devices usually are especially if you put an android derivative like GrapheneOS, Lineageos, /e/os, etc...
and the majority of phones.
Freedom wise, no one wins except pine and replicant truthfully.
Although they aren't worth using if you need constant internet connections with lots of battery life. Sadly that is how it is.
To me degoogling means disabling tracking mechanisms and making it more private so google can't snoop as much
youtube /watch?v=bK9ED0ZLFyY
https://www.braxtech.net/product
What is your opinion on the brax phone 3?
Rob Braxman is a great resource for teaching security and privacy to normies.
The Brax Phone 3 runs iodéOS which is LineageOS degoogled. Braxman is also aiming to get Ubuntu Touch on the device - a great move to escape the Android ecosystem. This would be a much better investment than giving money to Google for a Pixel device (or buying a Pixel used since they have lots of battery issues). Braxman also claims that his device is easy to repair and that replacement parts will be readily available.
From what I've seen he doesn't aim to make much profit off of this whole project as he's already retired and lives a comfortable life. He's genuinely interested in helping average people improve their privacy and security online.
If we're looking at the freedom ladder, this device seems to be a great option and user interest could lead to more freedom respecting devices in the future. Google on the other hand can prevent bootloader unlocking and kill off projects at any time.
I looked once but didn't find enough info to be sure what to do.